From: rrfineart (yahoo) Subject: [CONTACT] Ryan Air and the Real World Are you on crack? I read your little nightmare on Ryan Air...poor baby! I've flown Ryan Air over 100 times in the last seven years. They've been awesome every time. Let me now educate your dumb ass. In the U.S. (FAA or not) we get our "sucker" hats handed to us with $600 dollar fares for destinations of 300 to 500 miles away. A pure f-ing rip off. Ryan Air was the business model used for most of the other carriers you listed. When will you ever see a 60 dollar round trip ticket from L.A. to Frisco? NEVER! Stick your thumb back in your mouth or get real!
And my response:
Hello unnamed person who is possibly affiliated with RyanAir, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote: > Let me now educate your dumb ass. Thank you. > Ryan Air was the business model used for most of the other > carriers you listed. Clearly their customer service was *not* used as a model. > When will you ever see a 60 dollar round trip ticket from L.A. > to Frisco? Actually, I flew SF->LA and SF->San Diego *plenty* of times for $60 on Southwest. You've heard of Southwest. That's the business model that Ryan Air used. Except for the customer service. Southwest's customer service is some of the best in the industry. Ryanair, however: [Thanks to WikiPedia:] > In October 2006, Ryanair was voted the world's most disliked airline in > a survey by the TripAdvisor website, ... The BBC reported that 56% of > respondents said Ryanair caused "the biggest headaches" for air travellers > in a poll taken in 2003. Clearly I am not alone. And yes, Southwest prices have gone up because of fuel costs. Ryanair is not unaffected by this: www.smartmoney.com/onedaywonder/index.cfm?story=20080204-Ryanair&nav=RSS20 And yes, Southwest is still slightly more. And I have *no* problem, because the flights I had on RyanAir, as cheap as they were, weren't worth a penny, and ended up costing me *far* more than a flight on a more intelligent airline. Please check your information before flipping out and insulting people you've never met.
Dear Mr. Madison, Lets continue with our class.... 1) Southwest Airlines "the no frills airline" gets satisfied customers simply because the airline offers crap and the traveler knows it ahead of time. The onl y person calling their support line is the one inquiring if the wings are still on the fuselage. Southwest is actually the stripped down version of the old Air Cal and PSA, both of which were good carriers. Ryan Air borrowed nothing from th em except the principle of flight. 2) Ryan Air developed a business model that generates revenue/subsidies from s mall market cities eager to attract tourists and commerce. A "first" in the airl ine industry and a tremendous benefit to the European air traveler. No U.S. airl ine will ever do this for their domestic traveler. Burdened by unions and inept management, they will however keep lowering the bar of reasonable service while increasing the price of a ticket and they'll do this while running their company into Bankruptcy. If you think I'm wrong, go talk to a retired Delta pilot. 3) I've logged more air miles in one year than most people in one lifetime. All commercial airlines have service exceptions, weather exceptions and canceled flights. Your assessment of Ryan Air was a naive tantrum. Ask anyone who flies; would they rather pay $40 or $300 for essentially the same service to the same destination? I think you know the answer. Ryan Air got low survey marks....BFD. People still fly them and the price for a ticket is still unbelievably low! Go pay 10 times as much for another carrier and then let me hear you scream when the same delays take you by surprise! With security concerns, the real world in flying commercial today is "it's still better than taking a donkey". So get real! Your myopic assessment of Ryan Air was just that....myopic. I do not work for the airline or the industry. I am known however for being adept at putting all things askew into perspective. Yours Truly, Robert Reinhart
> 1) Southwest Airlines "the no frills airline" gets satisfied > customers simply because the airline offers crap and the traveler > knows it ahead of time. You can't be serious... I think you've confused RyanAir with Southwest, because you're discussing RyanAir above. Southwest has shockingly high customer satisfaction ratings, not by me, but in the industry. RyanAir has shockingly low customer satisfaction ratings, not by me, but in the industry. Those are facts. I suggest you look them up. "Southwest Airlines has consistently received the lowest ratio of complaints per passengers boarded of all Major U.S. carriers that have been reporting statistics to the Department of Transportation (DOT) since September 1987, which is when the DOT began tracking Customer Satisfaction statistics and publishing its Air Travel Consumer Report." "[RyanAir] was revealed as the subject of more complaints than any other airline in the EU" "Ryanair was voted the world's most disliked airline in a survey by the TripAdvisor website" etc.. etc.. > The only person calling their support line is the one inquiring if > the wings are still on the fuselage. Your misinformation is staggering. Southwest has a customer service line. It's free, incidentally, like pretty much every other airline besides RyanAir. And they answer almost immediately. As far as I can tell, you haven't flown Southwest very much. I've probably flown Southwest near as many times as you've flown RyanAir and I've never had a problem. The *one* time they had to cancel a flight they *more* than compensated for the trouble. (In this case, more is better than less, perhaps you're confused on that point). > Ryan Air borrowed nothing from them except the principle of flight. Wrong-o again. "The similarities to the Southwest model are hardly coincidental. In 1991, when Ryanair was just another struggling European regional carrier, O'Leary went to Dallas to meet Southwest executives and look for lessons he could take back to Ireland. The visit prompted a wholesale reconsideration of how the airline did business." RyanAir borrowed the one-aircraft-airline model, as well as open seating. > 2) Ryan Air developed a business model that generates > revenue/subsidies from small market cities eager to attract tourists *laugh* Yes, and they claim you're flying into Paris, when in reality you land a good hour away, with almost no transportation options (except for RyanAir run buses which charge as much as the flight). Definitely a first. Because Beauvais is trying to attract tourists to see... what exactly? Their fancy airport? Their bus lines to Paris? > while running their company into Bankruptcy. If you think I'm wrong, > go talk to a retired Delta pilot. I think that's true about Delta, which is also a crummy airline and has raised my travelling ire as well, which is why I'm done flying on Delta. I didn't bring up Delta as any sort of example of a good airline, now did I? Southwest, on the other hand, not only has great customer service, but also is one of the world's most profitable airlines. A little research could find these things out. > Your assessment of Ryan Air was a naive tantrum. My assessment of RyanAir was exactly what it was, a description of my experience on RyanAir, which included some of the *worst* customer service I have ever seen. Feel free to read it again, it's all factual. If you think that the things I'm complaining about are unimportant, then clearly the page is of no use to. And if so, then where does *your* naive tantrum come from, in contacting me? (And calling me stupid, nonetheless :) > Ask anyone who flies; would they rather pay $40 or $300 for > essentially the same service to the same destination? I think my page clearly demonstrates that we are *not* talking about the same service. I have flown many airlines in Europe, and all of them are in an *entirely* different class of service than RyanAir. Completely. Please check the title of my page about RyanAir. Your discussions on price are irrelevant, I can quite truthfully tell you that I would not make plans on RyanAir if their tickets were *free*. > Go pay 10 times as much for another carrier and > then let me hear you scream when the same delays take you by > surprise! I don't need to. I've never had a FOUR DAY delay on another airline, and, in general, other airlines actually have customer service. If I paid 10 times as much and got the same service as RyanAir then I probably would be screaming. Your ability to completely talk *around* the points I made in my article about RyanAir and in these emails has made it abunduntly clear that you are merely troll-baiting, so I'm probably done with this conversation, unless you have something intelligent and *on-topic* to add.
David "my friend", Bullony, Istanbull and Bull Crap. Southwest gets high marks because no one expects anything from their "stripped down" experience, period. Its a damn cattle car with chickens in cages and strippers making their way to Vegas. Definitely not Air France but just as expensive for one fifth the distance! If Ryan Air was parked at SNA, offering $12 seats to SFO, Southwest would be toast in less than a year. Believe it. May I suggest you remove your nose from that one little tree called "I had a run of bad luck on Ryan Air" and see a whole forest behind you called "thank god someone in the world is making air travel affordable". I apologize for calling you stupid. I meant to say "panty waist myopic alarmist". By the way, I stopped flying Southwest in the mid 1990's when in San Francisco at the airport, with a big window right in front of me and clear as a bell outside, I heard over the intercom, "We're sorry to announce that the flight to L.A. has been delayed 50 minutes due to dense fog". The plane was sitting right in front of 100 pissed off passengers waiting to get home. I've flown Ryan Air for 10 years and never had that level of B.S. fed to me. R. Reinhart
> Southwest gets high marks because no one expects anything > from their "stripped down" experience, Then why does RyanAir get low marks? You live in fantasy. > little tree called "I had a run of bad luck on Ryan Air" and see a Clearly you haven't actually read my page. The problem is not that I had bad luck and a few delays, it was HOW RYANAIR HANDLED THAT BAD LUCK. > I stopped flying Southwest .. I heard over the intercom, "We're sorry > to announce that the flight to L.A. has been delayed 50 minutes due > to dense fog". Unbelievable. You *clearly* haven't read my page. And, it turns out, you have just become the most incredible hypocrite I have seen. You stop flying Southwest after *one* delay that could easily be because of dense fog at your *destination* and you never fly again, but I should ignore my "run of bad luck". Amazing. Clearly, this conversation is *over*. Have a nice day.
That wasn't enough for Robert - somehow he thought the basis of our discussion was over Southwest, and I received this:
In case you missed it.... WASHINGTON (CNN) -- -- 3/7/08: Discount air carrier Southwest Airlines flew thousands of passengers on aircraft that federal inspectors said were "unsafe" as recently as last March, according to detailed congressional documents obtained by CNN. Congressional documents show Southwest flew thousands of passengers on aircraft deemed "unsafe" by inspectors. Documents submitted by Federal Aviation Administration inspectors to congressional investigators allege the airline flew at least 117 of its planes in violation of mandatory safety checks. In some cases, the documents say, the planes flew for 30 months after government inspection deadlines had passed and should have been grounded until the inspections could be completed. The planes were "not airworthy," according to congressional air safety investigators. On Thursday, the FAA initiated actions to seek a $10.2 million civil penalty against Southwest for allegedly operating 46 airplanes without conducting mandatory checks for fuselage cracking. "The FAA is taking action against Southwest Airlines for a failing to follow rules that are designed to protect passengers and crew," Nicholas A. Sabatini, the FAA's associate administrator for aviation safety, said in a written statement. Shall I take my victory lap now? You do realize that our little "tete e tete" and specifically my remarks regarding Southwest's passenger support line, i.e. "The only person calling their support line is the one inquiring if the wings are still on the fuselage" were made by me two weeks ago; well before this unbelievable announcement! I wonder how satisfied Southwest's customers are now? Kinda like, "Sorry you caught me with your spouse, can we still be friends?" Your glowing statistics, surveys and quotes regarding this airline just went out the window at light speed. The 10.2 million fine is supposedly the largest ever levied on a commercial airline. No wonder they're profitable; they've played Russian roulette with your life and everyone else's. Now lets get serious. You've posted our e-mails to one another and in doing so may lead some of your readers to believe that your site may indeed be a credible source for determining airline safety and overall satisfaction. May I suggest you now finish eating your crow pie and inform these same readers of the latest breaking news. I myself wouldn't be comfortable espousing the attributes of an airline committing gross negligence on a daily basis. Moreover, I'm guessing some in the legal world would even say it creates the potential for legal liability. In closing, you now realize that after slobbering all over Southwest, any other positive or negative experiences you've had on any other carriers, i.e Ryan Air, is akin to relying on the testimony of a jail house snitch. Hugs and Kisses. R.Reinhart
> Shall I take my victory lap now? You are clearly insane. My web page is entitled "RyanAir Sucks" - not "Southwest is a very safe airline" You did, somehow, manage to derail our RyanAir discussion by discussing Southwest's Customer Service, which I defended and continue to defend. It seems they have made a gross error in their maintenance, and I'm saddened to hear that, though I did just fly Southwest (quite comfortably) this weekend, and managed to live to reply to this email somehow. > I wonder how satisfied Southwest's customers are now? Only time will tell. If you'd like to create a page discussing Southwest, maybe you'll get some feedback on it! Now answer me this. You claim you aren't a part of RyanAir. Are you affiliated with RyanAtlantic? Or *any* of RyanAir's businesses? > Now lets get serious. You've posted our e-mails to one another and > in doing so may lead some of your readers to believe that your site > may indeed be a credible source for determining airline safety and Actually, I don't see the connection between those two things at all. Again, it seems you must be insane. > overall satisfaction. May I suggest you now finish eating your crow > pie and inform these same readers of the latest breaking news. I will happily post these email. They are quite entertaining. > I myself wouldn't be comfortable espousing the attributes of an airline > committing gross negligence on a daily basis. Moreover, I'm guessing > some in the legal world would even say it creates the potential for > legal liability. *laugh* Your attempts at legal fear-mongering are the best I've heard yet.
It's going to be okay. I'm researching for you the current meds for dementia. The Southwest "side step" was initiated by you. Please refer to my first e-mail, followed by your response; "Actually, I flew SF to LA and SF to San Diego plenty of times for $60 on Southwest. You've heard of Southwest? That's the business model that Ryan Air used..." Here's what's insane Dave. You developing a web site that lambasts Ryan Air; an airline providing affordable travel at a fraction of what is levied on us here in the U.S. Every airline has problems. For you to create a web site blasting this carrier, which is fractionally no better or worse than any other airline, is just stupid. Especially when this airline pioneered a model that was truly innovative in the industry. You and I both know and I'll say it again, "If Ryan Air was parked at SNA, offering $12 seats to SFO, Southwest would be toast in less than a year". My sole purpose in corresponding with you is to reel you back into reality. Especially now after you giving Southwest such glowing remarks. By the way, The fog announcement was for S.F., not L.A. That's what made the announcement so entertaining...Dave. Who goes to Beauvais? Well...who goes to Oakland? Who goes to Cincinnati? Who goes to Des Moines? and bus the fare? What are you, in high school with twenty bucks a week in your pocket? The Euro travel choice is either the train at 2 to 9 hours per trip, at a cost of $100 to $300 (TVG - Euro Rail), a car, by foot, by bike or by aircraft. Ryan Air flies you just about anywhere in Europe (in usually an hour) for the price of two to ten gallons in gas! But let me guess, if the local donkey stand had good 24 hour support, you'd be requesting "Betsy" for the five day journey. That is of course only if she dropped you right into Paris. R. Reinhart
> Every airline has problems. Ryan Air's problem is it's horrible customer service. It has full control over that. > which is fractionally no better or worse than any other airline, Clearly I, and many others, feel very different about this. I believe the experience I outlined demonstrates this. If you would like to explain to me how the "failures" they executed that I outlined on my page were not failures, I'd probably be amused by that. > You and I both know and I'll say it again, "If Ryan Air was parked.. It's amazing how incapable you are of understanding one simple fact. I do not agree with you. About most things, actually. And yet you start off sentences with "You and I both know.." I think you're wrong, on pretty much all of them. > My sole purpose in corresponding with you is to reel you back into reality. Please outline exactly what parts of my webpage are not real or based on reality. Please refer to exact and specific passages. Otherwise please stop wasting my time. The entertainment of your trolling is growing thin. > Who goes to Beauvais? Well...who goes to Oakland? The East Bay has more people than SF. And it costs just as much to take public transportation to OAK from the city as SFO. > What are you, in high school with twenty bucks a week in your pocket? > ...if the local donkey stand had good 24 hour support, you'd .. You're trying to reel *me* into reality? I'm not even clear what argument you're trying to make anymore. Please don't clarify it for me though. It's far more entertaining a read as this. Have a nice life!
I think I made my point. Your fixation on Ryan Air "customer support" in wholly grading this airline is myopic. You then creating a web site to whine about it made me laugh. Keep that donkey brushed and fed. Robert
> I think I made my point. Your fixation on Ryan Air "customer > support" in wholly grading this airline is myopic. You then creating There are many of us in the world who are completely uninterested in companies that have customer support as atrocious as RyanAir, regardless of what services they offer. If RyanAir was free, I would *not* fly them. You read that correctly. And I know many other people who feel exactly the same way. My article is written for them, and clearly not for you. One could argue that responding to one man's web site about his *experience* on one airline, as you have, is also incredibly myopic. I feel this conversation has come to a close. If you have no new points to make, and have nothing to add about the actual claims made in my original article, then I will likely not be responding to any further communication. Enjoy.
And I let him have the last word:
Are you familiar with the phrase "dogs barking at the moon"? You need to be flea dipped.
Thanks for the entertainment, Robert Reinhart!
But it wasn't quite enough, so "Don Murphy" (who is clearly
either Robert or an associate thereof) sent me this:
From: donmurphy2005 (hotmail)
Subject: [CONTACT] Ryanair
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 04:33:12 -0700
I read your critisism of Ryanair and I think in the main it was
unafair. I am Irish. I have no affilliation to and I am not an
employee of Ryanair. I have travelled with this airline since their
inception and I still travel with them on a regular basis, probably a
good deal more than you have done or will do,so I think my experience
with them over the years is a better reflection of them as an Airline
than your four disasters.
In all this time I have had 2 mishaps , 1 was the fault of Brish Rail
who had a delay on the line on the way to Stansted and my flight had
departed when I arrived. While Ryanair did not promise any thing and
they naturally did not accept responsibility, they got me on a flight
an hour later to an Airport 50 miles from my original destination.
The 2nd was a four hour delay in Beauvais due to Fog, which can
happen to any carrier.
I read your amusing banter with Mr Rheinhart and while I don't want
to get into a slanging match with you, I think he got the better of
you in this debate. I have heard a couple of my friends who like me
are Glasgow Celtic fans say that they would never fly Ryanair again
because of some problem they had. Well what do you know!! early this
year Ryanair introduced a direct flight from my home city of Cork to
Prestwick and bingo they are all back flying Ryanair again.They may
not be cheerful(although that is changing too) but by God they are
cheap for fares and with the present rate of Sterling against the
Euro being so unfavourable you need all the savings you can get.
You complain about lack of good Customer Service. If you want this
Dave you have to pay for it,you can't have it both ways although a
two day wait in Paris as opposed to a four day wait was'nt bad. At
least they made an effort to help you out. And what was your thanks
to them for their efforts? You set up a website to try and damage
In the scheme of things your rant against Ryanair will not matter a
jot. because they have enough of full planes, flying everyday around
all destinations in Europe and an unfair report by a disgruntled Yank
who has only flown with the Airline a hand-full of times is not going
to make the slightest dent in this. You are not in their target
You seemed to be making a lot of trips to Stockholm and my personal
opinion is that your were getting your leg over with some Helga and
you were annoyed that your sexual trysts were twarted by Ryanair's
inability to wing to your paramour for your " cheap thrill".
Grow up and get a life Dave.
dave , have you ever heard of Jet Blue . Graham in Vancouver
(I didn't realize this was a rant yet, I thought he was
suggesting an addition to my list of airlines)
Yup. They don't fly in Europe. :)
Thats not the point, the FAA is not what you call a seperate entity to the
Airlines , they are supposed to be , but it is questionable , ryanair is a
bus line in the air and they fly 20 to 30 times as many flights as north
american airlines for cheap fares , accidents ,no! delays yes but at least
you can get off or not on , go some where else and pick up a flight . not on
US airlines , if you dont mind sitting on Tarmac for 7 hrs, cant go to
washroom unless the flight attendents give you permision, cant get an extra
coffe unless you scream then go through the TSA Gestapo again and again ,
draging your bags with you , get srtipped searched at 80 yrs of age if you
have a metal plate any where in your body . The US airline opperations are
like most of the TSA staff and homeland KGB,s etc. Bully's . so the story
of people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, applies to you
and the US. & any one who quotes R. M. Weiner is a whiner& or a pessimist .
I'm sorry, I'm not sure if your email was supposed to be coherent or not.
The only point I understand is:
"people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"
To which I respond that I neither own a US airline, nor am I defending them.
He wasn't done:
no? then ride with the low cost and take your chances , pay the high price
in your country and sit on a tarmac for 7 hrs, which is the better choice ??
me _ I will risk ryanair antime . the point is and is very coherent ,if you
understand the meaning . the point is you compare EU operations and refer
to the all mighty and perfect FAA , well perhaps you keep it your self
untill your own US operations improve , that's " 30 " in sports if you know
what I mean
I actually wasn't defending the FAA in my article, nor did I call
it mighty and perfect. Perhaps you should read my article again,
and a little more carefully.
However, the situations you describe are situations that I have often
heard attributed to RyanAir, not to US airlines.